help to understand RPC

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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby euphoria » 30 Jan 2020 09:39

Regarding the info at the bottom, it's just a copy of RPC-info, I haven't updated yet, but will change in the end.

Now that group split is prepared, I will start to code the actual moving of the extra groups from the current event to new parallell events.
Then next is to begin on the scoreboard.

Thanks for proposals on names.
Inspired by your input, I suggest Random Teams Cup.

Cheers,
Harald
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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby euphoria » 03 Feb 2020 11:02

Status:
- Moving of extra groups to parallell events is done
- Generation of race table is completed for the 3 types of tables (4, 6 or 8 boats)
- Scoreboard is done, show correct scores based on results reported on the race table
- Input of scores is made simple on the race table, with use of toggle buttons

jiel wrote:Concerning the whole event, after the skippers registered, why not generate randomly 5 races among the 10 possible ? In my opinion, 10 races are too much. On the other hand, the event could stop when the 6 skippers agree or as soon as one of them leaves ...

I made this even more smart. The race table for events with 6 boats and 10 races is now not randomly ordered - instead it's ordered based on average rating points for each team. The races with the smallest amount of rating difference is listed first. So if you are not doing 10 races, at least you are doing the most interesting races... :-)

What remains is to calculate new ratings at the end of the event.
+ alot of small things, fine tuning and add-on features like ability to edit the participants in a race and adding additional races

Construction site is here:
https://team.vsk-match.com/rtc.php

Feel free to test everything that can be tested, to find bugs.

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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby jiel » 03 Feb 2020 17:49

Hi Harald,
Impressive ...
here are some questions or remarks not ordered :
1/ There is the button "Edit the event" that I alloewed to use. I guess in the final release only the administrator will have the right.
2/ Why to add several administrators ?
3/ The "Sure, I am sure" option concerns the mail or the presence of the skipper ?
4/ The "Start the event and create the race tables" is a very good idea, so one may start as soon as we want. In the case we are 4 skippers, is it cancelable, I mean once hitted, may I go back so 2 skippers who joined before the first race started could be added to the event ?
5/ Maybe a bug : once I added another administrator, I can not add new skippers in the event (test 2).
6/ bug in the creation of a new event at the very last step of the page, there was a crash with :
Error in query:
INSERT INTO rtc_skippers (FK_eventID, FK_skipperID, bitHost, StartRating) VALUES ( '22', '549', '1', '').

Incorrect decimal value: '' for column 'StartRating' at row 1

Note I didnt enter race names because it was not possible.
7/ More tests later, WD mate !

jean-Luc
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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby euphoria » 03 Feb 2020 19:02

1/ I gave you admin rights on the site, so you have same rights as event admin for all events.

2/ It was added for the events that are split in sub events. The original admin is copied as basic admin, while the first host of the groups he is not participating in is assigned as additional admin. This to start/stop events and add race results.

3/ Sure, I'm sure is a confirmation that an email should be sent to all as an advertisement for the event. Don't want to hit that button by accident...

4/ I will make options to go back in the steps, at least that step. But admin will also be able to add more skippers directly on the race table.

5/ Ok, will test

6/ Thx will fix

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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby euphoria » 03 Feb 2020 19:56

6/ Fixed.

jiel wrote:5/ Maybe a bug : once I added another administrator, I can not add new skippers in the event (test 2).

What event are you looking at?
This? https://team.vsk-match.com/rtc_event.php?id=2

If not, please send link.

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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby jiel » 04 Feb 2020 02:25

Looks like that was not a bug.

Last tests have been success.
Some questions :
How are computed the points ?
what is the difference between "started" and "open" race status ? Is there not a "closed" status ?

CU soon,

Jean-Luc
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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby euphoria » 04 Feb 2020 15:54

How the points are calculated, it's what I'm trying to find out :-)
For testing, I have copied the RPC points as base. Will set all points to 1600 when we go live.
I'm using the ELO rating formulas.
It's the same way the VSK Match rating was calculated, the VTC rating and RPC rating.

For RTC, instead of comparing skipper vs skipper, I'm giving each team their average ELO rating, and is then calculating the win probablity for each based on this.

Wp = 1/(10^(RatingDelta/400)+1)

The win probability function is assuming the rating differences follow a normal distribution. That is probably not correct, but probably not that bad either...

When a skipper has done his races, his expected score for the event is the sum of his teams win probability: ExpectedScore = Sum(Wp)
And then to calculate the change of rating for this skipper, we take (ActualScore - ExpectedScore)*K

K-factor is hard to set... If K is set too high, then the rating changes are too big for each race, giving the rating less accuracy. If K is set too low, it takes too long time for a skipper to reach his level. The K was yesterday set to 32, but I will try to set it to 24. This can be tuned after launch.

Feel free to suggest changes. I've currently just worked out the code for extracting data from the databases, calculating this efficiently, before storing the change in the database. That's where I reached yesterday, just outputting the data to the screen so I see that things goes as planned (eventually!).

Status Open/Started...
Feel free to propose logic statuses. For now I only have come to:
Open - meaning the event is open for entries
Started - meaning the event is not open for entries, race tables are drawn (but admin may fill/replace slots on the race table).

Then I was thinking of
Finished - meaning there will be no more races
Completed - meaning there are no outstanding protests

For RPC we have these categories:
Open - less than 8 entries
Full - 8 entries, but no races scored
Racing - between 1 and 6 rounds completed
Pending - all 7 rounds completed, but event is not scored
Completed - all 7 rounds completed, and the event is scored

Thanks for feedback so far!

Harald
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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby jiel » 04 Feb 2020 17:41

Bonjour Harald,

hihihi, saying "ELO" was sufficient. I did use this in vsk some years ago to generate a ranking. It is the best system imo but I dont want to re-enter in it :). What about those who "If there are drop outs, new skippers can be substituted on the fly" ? in this case, does your code work properly to compute the individual ELOs ? If yes, you have all my respect (but you have already).

About the logical status, it is clearer now. 2 states (open/started) are sufficient imo if you give their meanings in the page.

Not sure the "Enter the target number of races" is of interest unless you use it to forbiden new entries once the target is hitted.
Same for the "Estimated event duration (hours)". The administrator may close the registration in starting the event, so he controls duration and among of races at least approximatively.

To end, I think it is time to launch real testing :)

CU later,
Jean-Luc
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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby euphoria » 04 Feb 2020 17:59

jiel wrote:What about those who "If there are drop outs, new skippers can be substituted on the fly" ? in this case, does your code work properly to compute the individual ELOs ?

Yes, it only sums the win probability for the races with a score, and for the races this skipper has participated in.
If a skipper has done only 1 race, he will get points = (Result-Wp)*24, where res is 1 if he was on winning team or 0 if he was on losing team :-)

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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby euphoria » 04 Feb 2020 21:35

Now I'm done with the core features from start (create event) to finish (score event), so it's actually possible to run a regatta on this system. Still have to finish all the permissions and fine tuning, but most of all make the features to
- replace skippers (either for just a single race, but also for the remaining races)
- add skippers (changing from 2vs2 to 3vs3)
- add new races

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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby euphoria » 05 Feb 2020 11:25

euphoria wrote:Thanks for proposals on names.
Inspired by your input, I suggest Random Teams Cup.

I'm not convinced on this yet...
The teams are not necessarily random, so what about

Mixed Teams Cup ?

This makes it also more isolated from the RPC name.

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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby jiel » 05 Feb 2020 12:13

Why not simply Team Racing Cup (TRC) ?
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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby euphoria » 06 Feb 2020 14:20

I like both of them, and added a vote for this on the frontpage.
I'm 50/50 on this question, so I will not vote.
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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby euphoria » 07 Feb 2020 15:27

euphoria wrote:Now I'm done with the core features from start (create event) to finish (score event), so it's actually possible to run a regatta on this system. Still have to finish all the permissions and fine tuning, but most of all make the features to
- replace skippers (either for just a single race, but also for the remaining races)
- add skippers (changing from 2vs2 to 3vs3)
- add new races

All the major features done now:
- replace skippers, either for just a single race, but also for the remaining races (added a checkbox for this)
- add skippers (changing from 2vs2 to 3vs3) - fixed this by enable editing of the whole race
- add new races

Also added option to start the event, even if there are not enough skippers, which send the event admin to the scoreboard with a form to manually fill in the first race. This could typically be useful when someone wants to just open a TR server and add races as skippers arrive on a normal race session.

One more feature is on my list, and then only the fine tuning remains.

Harald
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Re: help to understand RPC

Postby euphoria » 07 Feb 2020 16:45

euphoria wrote:One more feature is on my list, and then only the fine tuning remains.

Done. Added option to run un-ranked events. Typically can be used for just scores from public race servers, where you add the skippers manually to the race table.

Now the fine tuning... Will starts to check if permissions are correct for each available click, because until now has needed to be site admin for most actions.

jiel wrote:Not sure the "Enter the target number of races" is of interest unless you use it to forbiden new entries once the target is hitted.
Same for the "Estimated event duration (hours)". The administrator may close the registration in starting the event, so he controls duration and among of races at least approximatively.

I think at least target event duration is useful.
For example, if I create an event where I intend to race with 6 skippers, then the race table will consist of 10 races.
Each participant should only sign up to the event if they actually are available for the target event duration.
If duration is set to 2 hours, and at that time they have done 6 races, then it's acceptable to leave.
While it would not be acceptable if someone only was available for 1 or 2 races, but still signed up...

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