3 vs 3 Wednesday

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3 vs 3 Wednesday

Postby euphoria » 26 Feb 2020 22:57

Protest from SoVa on BlueSweden in race 1. He wrote P11 in chat.
Time in replay: 10:35.
Blue is entitled to room, and can only be exonerated for breaking rule 11 if he is sailing within mark-room.
Sova left at least 3 boat widths between him and the mark, which is more than enough.
Blue used more room than necessary, and get 6 points for breaking rule 11.

Does the blue team agree?

Race score:
Red 13
Blue 8+6=14

Thanks for the crucial luff last upwind, Aleks - otherwise 6-15 score and loss...

Harald
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Re: 3 vs 3 Wednesday

Postby samuel » 26 Feb 2020 23:54

YES!
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Re: 3 vs 3 Wednesday

Postby jiel » 27 Feb 2020 00:53

I remember this incident where indeed BLUE deserved the penalty. Later EUPHO chatted "P Blue" and BLUE did his 360 on this request. However EUPHO chatted "too late". I dont understand that. IMO the pen was cleared. If it is too late why EUPHO chatted "P Blue" ? And why saying "too late" ? Maybe I missed something but at this state I must say that I disagree about the 6 points when the skipper did his 360 which was the consequence of an oponant asking he must turn.
Cheers,
Jean-Luc
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Re: 3 vs 3 Wednesday

Postby Shura » 27 Feb 2020 08:04


added video
Leo Tolstoy in my years did not write this.
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Re: 3 vs 3 Wednesday

Postby euphoria » 27 Feb 2020 10:44

jiel wrote:I remember this incident where indeed BLUE deserved the penalty. Later EUPHO chatted "P Blue" and BLUE did his 360 on this request. However EUPHO chatted "too late". I dont understand that. IMO the pen was cleared. If it is too late why EUPHO chatted "P Blue" ? And why saying "too late" ?

Hi J-L,

I see what you mean, and let me explain...

At the top mark right after the incident, I wrote P.
But since the situation was between Sova and Blue, I later wrote P Blue as an attempt to make it clear that my hail for protest was for him, not that I wanted him to spin now.
Then you told him to do 360, and I immediately said it was too late (because my message was only a specification of the first hail).
Still Blue did a turn long after this message...
And Blue didn't have any disadvantage from doing the pen at the bottom mark, as he had a big lead in the race.
Before and after the turn, he was in first place, so the turn is irrelevant at this stage.
If I wanted him to spin minutes after the situation, he would of course have needed to do enough turns to be last.
If he had done his turn at the top mark, he would have been last, which makes a huge difference.
Red would have been 2 3 4, and Jiel would have had a very hard job in first to stop 3 boats who split after rounding the top mark...

I don't know if he realized what I was hailing for, as there was a new situation between Blue and Sova at that time?
Blue could have ignored the hail, or he could have believed it was for another (Sova) situation.

PS! Later I realized that Sova also had written P 11 in the chat at the incident, so my message was not necessary, as there was no doubt for Blue that he was protested at the top mark.

If you are not happy with this race, it's of course not a problem to just make the race un-scored on the race table.

Harald
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Re: 3 vs 3 Wednesday

Postby jiel » 27 Feb 2020 11:43

OK but even a "P" was hailed, I think BLUE didnt turn asap because the hail was not clear enough, at least for BLUE. I think he didnt realize the hail was for him nor that he broke a rule. The proof is that you had to precise the hail later : "P Blue". I have no doubt that if BLUE knew he infringed a rule he would have turned asap.

Yes few time later there was an additionnal incident between SOVA and BLUE and I think the SOVA hail "P 11" was for this one (?) I dont remember exactly.

IMO any protest would be clear especially for the guy who is hailed. That was not the case because BLUE didnt know he was protested. Consequently I think an un-scored race is a good agreement. TY Harald for that.

Jean-Luc
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Re: 3 vs 3 Wednesday

Postby euphoria » 27 Feb 2020 12:25

Yep, I agree that "P" alone from me is not good enough, this is also written in the rules, see article D2.1(b)(1):
https://team.vsk-match.com/appendix-d.php
So my valid hail was too late in any case.
But I'm pretty sure the "P 11" hail from Sova was made right after my "P" hail.
The case later on the downwind was rule 10 for Sova, so I guess he would have hailed "P 10" for that one if he wanted to protest, but he accepted VSK pen and did a turn.

Anyway, a nice gentleman solution, we un-score the first race - was a nice warm-up race :-)

Cheers,
Harald
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