Race #2 @ the monday TRC 19h (Jiel versus Parus)

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Race #2 @ the monday TRC 19h (Jiel versus Parus)

Postby jiel » 24 Mar 2020 03:56

Hi all,
Contact Jiel/Parus at T=11min22sec of the attached replay.
JieL gybed then luffed Parus who responded. When Jiel stopped to luff, Parus continued his rotation and his stern hitted Jiel boat when room to keep clear was given by Jiel.
Parus asked cancellation, then protested.
Jiel accepted the cancel but after a while, protested Parus who didnt turn.

I think the Arrival was :
1/ Blue (Mac)
2/ Red (Ilya)
3/ Blue (Sova)
4/ Red (Jiel)
5/ Blue (Parus)
6/ Red (Shura)
Giving a BLUE win 9/12.
But from the rule D3.1 of the Team Racing Appendix, I think Parus deserves 6 additionnal penalty points. In that case the result turns into a RED win : 15/12.
Best Regards,
Jean-Luc
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WTRparus jiel end race.Replay.Gbx
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Re: Race #2 @ the monday TRC 19h (Jiel versus Parus)

Postby Shura » 24 Mar 2020 09:17

Leo Tolstoy in my years did not write this.
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Re: Race #2 @ the monday TRC 19h (Jiel versus Parus)

Postby samuel » 24 Mar 2020 13:55

Parus continued his rotation and his stern hitted Jiel boat when room to keep clear was given by Jiel


To me, looking from the video I think Jiel fault to give room to keep clear to parus breaking RRS 16.

Just take a look at Jiel boat angle when luffing. my question is :

- What parus could to do? stop full rudder luff?

- Now what JIel could to do to keep control, giving enough room to parus to keep clear.

Im not specialist, just opinion.

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Re: Race #2 @ the monday TRC 19h (Jiel versus Parus)

Postby euphoria » 24 Mar 2020 18:18

These situations are difficult for windward, because what can he do?
If he stops luffing, he will be penalize because he could luff more.
If he continues to luff, he will be penalized because he did not have to luff that much.

But it's not really acceptable to stop luffing when the boats are parallell and this close, because then a small luff from leeward would make contact.
He has to luff to a higher course.

What is in favor for windward in this case is the facts that he is:
- luffing with the same speed all the time, not too fast, so it doesn't come as a surprise to leeward that his stern will swing out, and leeward can easily bear away to give required room
- he is taking down his kite in order to be able to do his best to keep clear (luff more)
- he does not try to gain any advantage, he is only trying to keep clear, and maybe even doing more than necessary
- leeward had control of the situation all the time

I can repeat what I always say in these cases: Don't make contact if you can keep control in a 15/16 situation. Mark traps are good for penalizing if the other boat goes in the trap. But otherwise, better to use control to create passing lanes for other boats.

Harald
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Re: Race #2 @ the monday TRC 19h (Jiel versus Parus)

Postby jiel » 24 Mar 2020 20:43

I was surprised by the Parus overreaction (see few seconds before how I kept clear from Parus in the identical situation, if I had overrotated like Parus : contact) its why I didnt bear away to avoid contact.

I will follow and accept the Committe decision but I would feel better if Parus says some words here.

Anyway, good races, good discussion, TY all.

Jean-Luc
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Re: Race #2 @ the monday TRC 19h (Jiel versus Parus)

Postby PArus » 25 Mar 2020 19:14

for 1 incident when I had the right of way.1) we were Overlap for a long time, you could keep your distance from me 2) I didn't change course aggressively, giving you Keep Clear.
Incident 2 . when I'm Windward and you're Leeward . 1) Overlap occurred as a result of simultaneous rotation. 2) even before you got the right of way, you started attacking me, changing course, didn't give me a place to Keep Clear. 3) I kept away from you all the time.
I was sure you'd broken rule 16.1

sorry about the translator :?
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Re: Race #2 @ the monday TRC 19h (Jiel versus Parus)

Postby jiel » 26 Mar 2020 00:13

TY for confirming your point Parus (your translator is perfect).

After reading the TR CALL A3, I must admit I broke 16.1 (I had to avoid the Parus boat stern). However, in my opinion Parus broke rule 11 because he didnt keep clear in a seamanlike way (same TR call A3). As I already said, if Parus luffed in a seamanlike way I never hit his boat (of course one may argue that the overrotation was made in a seamanlike way but I was really surprised however) . I also franckly align up with the "majority decision based on input from non-interested parties".

CU later
Jean-Luc
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