Ilya vs Zez

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Ilya vs Zez

Postby Ilya » 26 Mar 2020 00:50

I think no comments are needed for this situation.
I uploaded the video to YouTube to make it easier to watch, just attached the file. After reviewing, please change the winning team.
In this race at the finish line there were such results:
1.Parus( Blue)
2. Zez (Blue)
3. Blue Sweden ( Red)
4. Shuraz RUS (Red)
5. Ilya ( Red)
6. Flowtation ( Blue) - DNF
https://youtu.be/ZWOPSMaKqPc
Attachments
WTRC'10Trapani I F5 v3.0(00'54''49)10 rules.Replay.Gbx
(634 KiB) Downloaded 33 times
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Re: Ilya vs Zez

Postby PArus » 26 Mar 2020 06:23

The protest in the game's chat was written ( P boat name)?
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Re: Ilya vs Zez

Postby Shura » 26 Mar 2020 08:57

TRC 2020 03 25 race 08 prestart


Collision of Ilia against Zez needs no comment.
but the collision Parus vs BlueSweden( time 0:46 - 0:54). My opinion is pen 15 for the Parus, is correct.

Kim disconnect in this race. Race does not count.
Leo Tolstoy in my years did not write this.
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Re: Ilya vs Zez

Postby PArus » 26 Mar 2020 09:42

No one protested against me and did not request the cancellation of the penalty. How did the Ilya vs Zez incident develop? :wink:
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Re: Ilya vs Zez

Postby PArus » 26 Mar 2020 09:57

 

Version 2019-11-16

APPENDIX D FOR VSK5, 2017-2020TEAM RACING RULES

Paragrath D2.1 b)
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Re: Ilya vs Zez

Postby zez » 26 Mar 2020 11:30

Sailing leeway of Ilya on port side. Ilya is row, I start to luff him but she gybes fast and creates collision course. I try to stop my luff as fast as possible, but there was not enough room for my gybe. I hesitate a very few to cross in front as an 2nd option but it was no room enough also, then I decided to gybe in order to reduce the collision impact ( not stoping Ilya's boat and not having right side advantage ).
I did write "P" without boatname in chat. Not sure what Ilya wrote.

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Re: Ilya vs Zez

Postby Ilya » 26 Mar 2020 12:21

zez wrote:Sailing leeway of Ilya on port side. Ilya is row, I start to luff him but she gybes fast and creates collision course. I try to stop my luff as fast as possible, but there was not enough room for my gybe. I hesitate a very few to cross in front as an 2nd option but it was no room enough also, then I decided to gybe in order to reduce the collision impact ( not stoping Ilya's boat and not having right side advantage ).
I did write "P" without boatname in chat. Not sure what Ilya wrote.

Zez


I wrote P in the chat. Everyone saw it.
In this situation, you had many options to avoid breaking the rules.
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Re: Ilya vs Zez

Postby Ilya » 26 Mar 2020 12:25

zez wrote:Sailing leeway of Ilya on port side. Ilya is row, I start to luff him but she gybes fast and creates collision course. I try to stop my luff as fast as possible, but there was not enough room for my gybe. I hesitate a very few to cross in front as an 2nd option but it was no room enough also, then I decided to gybe in order to reduce the collision impact ( not stoping Ilya's boat and not having right side advantage ).
I did write "P" without boatname in chat. Not sure what Ilya wrote.

Zez

You did not take timely action to avoid contact. After I turned I didn’t even change course
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Re: Ilya vs Zez

Postby Ilya » 26 Mar 2020 12:34

PArus wrote:The protest in the game's chat was written ( P boat name)?

In this situation, of course I wrote to chat P.
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Re: Ilya vs Zez

Postby PArus » 26 Mar 2020 15:04

Ilya wrote;
I wrote P in the chat. Everyone saw it.

zez wrote:
I did write "P" without boatname in chat. Not sure what Ilya wrote.

Ilya, do you have a screenshot confirming it?
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Re: Ilya vs Zez

Postby Ilya » 26 Mar 2020 16:17

PArus wrote:Ilya wrote;
I wrote P in the chat. Everyone saw it.

zez wrote:
I did write "P" without boatname in chat. Not sure what Ilya wrote.

Ilya, do you have a screenshot confirming it?


I did not see the point in order to take a screenshot.
For 3 months we had no problems with this situation, because no one misled anyone.

If in this situation the protest is not considered without a screenshot, then next time, if necessary, I will do it.


But I have not yet encountered such a frank lie
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Re: Ilya vs Zez

Postby jiel » 26 Mar 2020 19:58

Well, its no so clear than that because rule 10 begins to apply once the Ilya tack is over (t=17s). Beginning row, Ilya must give room under 15. In my opinion he gave that room but the fraction of time Zez hesitated led Zez to fail to keep clear. Its a rule 10 breache for Zez.
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Re: Ilya vs Zez

Postby zez » 26 Mar 2020 22:11

Yes Jiel I agree it is close, but my choice is a very short time, I also had to stop initial rotation. I was luffing her and she beared to gybe and create collision course with almost no room to avoid. My reaction time is much less than 2s, I did bear away with full rudder, couldn't do much better. I had not enough time nor room to react soon enough.

To be exact :
" I did write P without boatname. I saw Ilya wrote P, but I can't say if she said P only or P Zez. Chat was unreadable, I can't remember, sorry for that.

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Re: Ilya vs Zez

Postby euphoria » 26 Mar 2020 22:33

Hi Guys,

Just to clarify, this is the requirements for hails according to the VSK TR Appendix D.2.1.b linked from the menu of the site:
(1) hail ‘P’ in the VSK chat for a situation where VSK assigned a penalty, and the protestor and the protestee are the two boats refered to in the VSK call, or
(2) hail ‘P Boatname’ in the VSK chat for any other protest

So for this case it is sufficient to hail P, if the protest is made by Zez or Ilya. Normally we sail as gentlemen, and it's not necessary with a screenshot as evidence. If this was a more important competition like WTRC, then it would be different.

To the case, the reaction time of Zez is very good, less than a second, that is for sure good enough.
But after starting to turn to starboard, Zez centers his rudder half a second, before he continues to turn.
This was a mistake, and he is therefore using more room than necessary, and can't be exonerated for his breach of rule 10 (see Jiel comment).
Without the hesitation, Zez would have been ok, and probably Ilya would have given required room also...
+6p for Zez in this race.

Harald
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Re: Ilya vs Zez

Postby Ilya » 26 Mar 2020 23:01

Thank you Harald for the professional assessment of the situation.
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